Comments on: Do Compound Exercises Really Build More Muscle?

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:56:14 +0000

@Carolyn. Weight lifting is for everyone. Resistance training actually helps with bone density so I would still recommend squats and such, but take it light at first until you build up a little strength and confidence.
As far as the pooch is concerned. You can’t spot-reduce the fat there. You’ll have to lose overall body fat which is primarily a matter of diet, then exercise to supplement it.
@Rich. No U turn buddy. I always have used both and still do. This post is to defend isolation movements against unfounded criticism.
@Steve. This study was already brought up in comment 10 to which I responded in comment 11. Additionally, the Nautilus North study used exclusively isolation movements with quite astonishing results (bodpod used to track changes in lean mass). Furthermore, you cannot force muscle fibers to grow that haven’t been recruited in an exercise. Deadlifts are therefore an inefficient way to stimulate bicep growth (though I don’t argue that they can contribute to their growth). If you want a particular muscle to grow, recruit as many fibers that make up that muscle as possible. This will usually, but not always, require an isolation movement. Induce the requisite microtrauma and the body will heal it and overcompensate (assuming enough intensity was used). Again, you can’t impart this microtrauma to fibers that haven’t been recruited in an exercise. Thanks for your comment.
Take care guys,
Mark

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 03:57:30 +0000

If you would like to see the science of compound muscle growth check out this study:

Rogers et al

The Effect of Supplemental Isolated Weight-Training Exercises on Upper-Arm Size and Upper-Body Strength

Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN.
NSCA Conference Abstract (2000)

It showed that adding isloated weight training exercises to compound movements added nothing.

If you want to continue this, can you please present a study that shows that isolated movements result in more hypertrophy compared to compound movements? Since you allegedly subscribe to the scientific method.

By: Mitchell

Mitchell — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 19:27:05 +0000

Marc, you’re right, this did rub me the wrong way. I do hope you get ranked for this search term because you wrote a very compelling article. I think those reading this need to keep in mind the specific goal which is Muscle Hypertrophy. From my studies and my experience, Compound Exercises are better for those that are seeking fat loss and as you said, beginners, and athletes. It will give them a good foundation of functional muscle to work with. I’ll be putting together my own program later this year and I will def experiment with this concept. Thanks for the insight.

Mitch

By: Rich

Rich — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 17:19:08 +0000

Hey Mark

Can’t help but notice that this is a big U-turn from all of your previous advice and is a big divergence from the principles of say Jeff Wilet and MAX-OT which I know was a heavy influence factor for you with THT. What have been your personal results based on these new principles, are you recording a big difference?

Cheers
Rich

By: Carolyn

Carolyn — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 07:06:11 +0000

I am 44 year old female in good shape. I want to build muscle, but lose fat. Considering my age and I have 2 boys , 12 and 2, I can’t afford to do more damage to me knees with heavy lunges and such. How can I build muscle in my legs with out damaging my knees? How do I get rid of the baby pooch at 44, work hard or realize that some women just will have that pooch? I have more questions , but can write more later. Thanks for answering in advance.

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:41:33 +0000

@Bob. I train alone so a smith machine is great for safety. Smith machines are fine, use it. Less of your concentration will be diverted away from keeping the bar secure and more on lifting and lowering the weight. I really like that about them. Will you use less stabilizer muscles? Perhaps, but you’ll probably (like me) be able to hammer out an extra rep or 2 at the same weight. It’s better than being unsafe when training alone.

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:29:15 +0000

Thanks to everyone else for the kind comments. MUCH appreciated! 😀

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:27:22 +0000

@Chas. Yes if there’s no resistance at the PCP the exercises is inferior (but by no means useless). For now add in the cable movements as first priority. I’ll detail it all out when the latest Total Anabolism is released.
@Yogi. Recently I’ve been adding a pre-exhaust to one body-part that I choose to specialize for the length of the current training cycle. You can’t do it for all muscles at the same time because the recovery time would start getting ridiculous.
@Tim. I know Little did but I don’t think Jones did (unless I’ve missed it). Although Jones did incorporate iso’s, he didn’t iso-only if that’s what you mean. Let me know if you have any different info on that though.

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:19:14 +0000

To the few of you who have read this article as meaning
“ditch compounds for isolations” – this is not the case. I don’t have time to respond individually but this response covers a few people’s comments.
The article’s purpose is to show the effectiveness of isolation exercises in the face of a huge amount of ill-informed criticism on the web.
It is not the purpose of this post (nor the opinion of the author) that you should ditch compound exercises in favor of isolations. I have been using BOTH to great effect for years.
This isn’t an either/or type thing.
But the effectiveness of isolation exercises in recruiting the MAXIMUM no. of muscle fibers of ONE intended muscle needs to be put out there for public consumption.

By: Bob

Bob — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:08:03 +0000

I really like your comments but I do have one question about the equipment. I notice you use a Smith Machine and so do I. Infact they are quite similar. I have been told by other so called experts on the web that I need to get rid of it because they are a waste of time. I feel that I can safely lift alone with it when I need to but again I ve been told that they don’t work the body properly. Are Smith Machines ok.

By: Darshan Weerasinghe

Darshan Weerasinghe — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:44:42 +0000

Hi All

Firstly I must thank Mark for the TSPA and helping me get down to 9.8% bodyfat (from 20%+). But guys this article am just not buying…..

There is NO WAY that isolation exercises can produce more hypertrophy than compund movements at least over the long term. Lets take the lower body…..do you really believe that performing leg extensions, leg curls, adductor/abductor and calf raises and taking all of them to failure and being progressive will lead to more growth in the legs than squatting and leg pressing hard?? NO WAY!

In fact squats and deadlifts especially for high reps are best mass building exercises ever. Countless old time lifters and reguar ppl have gotten big this way.

I believe in iso movements and think they are ESSENTIAL for balanced development and correcting weaknesses. But prescribing them over compund moevements for growth is a huge disservice especially for hardgaining trainees. Sorry guys but this is just my opinion. I know Mark knows his stuff but I just cannot agree with him on this one.

Maybe I’m biased due to my powerlifting backgorund but I have gotten very big from many many years if just focsuing on sqauts, deads, benches and the like and have trained and seen many others do the same. I just don’t believe isolation exercises can do this. Furthermore look at top class olympic weightlifters….they are very big and muscular and do very few iso moves. You can’t just attribute that to genetics

anyway all the best to everyone with their training

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 04:55:46 +0000

Good article, but in saying all this I think variety is also a key to growth. You mentioned the guy who just trained his biceps for bigger arms but it is important to also note that the human body is very clever and from a natural and evolutionary point which means adaptation to our environment (lifting heavy weights) our bodies cannot grow large abnormally. For example you will experience limited growth in certain muscle groups if other muscle groups are not built equally. How could one have a well developed chest and abs if their backs are weak and not worked. How can biceps be well defined and bulked without developed triceps. Quite simply the body will restrict growth if not kept in reasonable proportion. I learnt this the hard way by working biceps to failure and not working triceps hard enough. As soon as I worked them harder then results started to happen on the biceps front. Obviously here I am referring to muscle groups and related groups. Yes before anyone says anything I know you could have great legs and no arms but our bodies like to stay relative and in proportion that is how we are designed and develop naturally. As natural body-builders then we need to work with natural ways for maximum development.

By: John

John — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 03:03:16 +0000

Both are key for results, use the some compounds to crankout the T and iso’s for PCP.!

By: Tim Stovall

Tim Stovall — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 02:08:53 +0000

Hey, Mark!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Arthur Jones eventually came to the same conclusion as well as John Little. This makes perfect since, as you said, if the goal is hypertrophy.

By: yogi isbell

yogi isbell — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 01:10:32 +0000

Thank u mark i agree with what you said what about pre-exuast what are your thoughts

By: Darrin

Darrin — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:39:12 +0000

Hey Mark – I love the contrarian view you often take. It challenges the herd-thinking. In this case, I definitely fall in the camp of “compound is better” but my goals are usually not pure hypertrophy. For getting stronger, I’d contend that nothing beats compound movements. When I am training for hypertrophy though, I have this rule: do compound movements at the start of your workout and put the isolations at the end. To me, that’s the best of both worlds – strength and hypertrophy.

By: Chas

Chas — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:07:34 +0000

Hey Mark,
Great article as usual. So if you are saying that normal dumbbell curls are somewhat inferior because they are not hitting pcp. Would you suggest doing single arm curls using cables and then replace ez bar curls with cables as well? Or continue to do those and just incorporating the cable preacher curls? If yes to continue doing normal alternating dumbbell curls and ez bar curls would you say its best to do those before or after the preacher curls for best results or does it not really matter. Thanks in advance.

By: Zipper

Zipper — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:55:16 +0000

Well I have to say, Mark, you hit it spot on there my friend. I can’t tell you how many times I see it in the Gym with these idiots telling me what’s what. And some of the most ridiculous suggestions I hear to others that are noobs in there. I cringe and turn up my ipod a little bit louder. I wish I could run around telling these people that “no no NO!” but I’d be wasting my own time, although, I do get some guys here and there asking what I’m doing and how I’m achieving what I do etc. Then and only then, am I happy to yap a little and tell them if they want to learn a little more, then to meet me in the lobby afterwards for some insight.

Very well done and very well said, it’s going to take a long time to get us robots out of this mindjob of wrong expectations and doings.

Hats of brother! And hey….I’m a noob to your site too. Inspiring job! Keep it up.

Zipper.

By: Vincent Blacke

Vincent Blacke — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:49:30 +0000

Thank god, someone has the balls to go up against all the pro-compound freaks like “StrongLifts.com”… Compound exercises are a necessity, but not at the expense of maximum muscle growth.

Great Article 🙂

By: Debbie

Debbie — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:37:01 +0000

I LOVE getting your articles. I’ve added back in pec deck, cable preacher curls, cable pullovers and cable kickbacks thanks to you. I follow the 6-pack ab training. I lowcarb, and like isolation exercises. You always speak to what makes sense to me. Thanks Mark. 🙂

By: John

John — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:28:11 +0000

I think you make good points. I am glad you made it clear that hypotrophic adaptation versus, functional strength adaptation are two drasticly different goals and require different approach’s. I started off as a person wanting to be a like Arnold as a young boy then moved on to power-lifting and now train for fitness. Drastically different goals, different tools and even when the tools are the same they are applied differently to the body to create what ever effect you are seeking! That is a hard point to get people to understand. I think the current push by the hard core to compound exercise’s is due to the long and almost total domination of the media coverage being aimed at Steroid Using Pro Body Builders not that any of them would ever admit to using drugs as they are cowards! So it is an over correction of the pendulum from the far left to the far right. I am glad it has happened in a a way because it has brought a lot of people back to the middle where most of us no drug using amateur weight lifting fitness types and drug free body builders belong! Neither extreme serves the greater population at large. I am always telling people to let their goal determine what tools they use and how they use them. So good job.

By: BsH

BsH — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:12:25 +0000

I love this site, and the programs make alot of sense to me. But this article im not quite sure about. I have trained for several years, and can remember starting out like i see alot of trainees, using mainly isolation exercises. The preacher curl machine, pec dec , leg extensions , leg curls . But staying away from the Squats, Deadlifts , Bench Press , Standing curl, etc. The hard core exercises.

It wasnt until I started following MAX-OT which is almost all compound movements as you know. And with the advise of Jeff Willett and Paul Cribb who i think is also very well respected and quite the scientific buff, I really started growing and had major strength increases. Forgoing the isolation exercises and using ones that I could really move weight with.

But like you had stated before, the rep range(4-6) was hard to keep your form and your 10-12 rep range has kept me improving and been better on my joints. The THT program appears to mirror Max-OT with compound movements primarialy and is an awesome program and I dont see the isolation only exercises listed in it. And I know THT has helped alot of beginners as well as advanced like myself.

Am i to gather that your saying forget the bench press and only use pec dec now? Forget the squat and use leg extensions? Forget the Barbell Curl and use the cable preacher curl instead if your an experienced bodybuilder?

Your right, this is a complete turn around from the other professional trainers in this field. I like isolation exercises personally, such as pec dec AFTER I have trained heavy on the Bench Press. Seated Preacher cable curls After I have spent out on the heavy Barbell curls.

I hope this isnt taken wrong because I love this site have purchased your program and appreciate the time and devotion you put into this. Im just not sure if what im reading is exactly what you mean.

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:01:33 +0000

To everyone. It’s just gone midnight here and I gotta get some sleep. Thanks for all the great comments. I’ll have some time to read any more that are posted tomorrow.
Take care,
Mark.

By: Mark McManus

Mark McManus — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:59:09 +0000

@Alex. The study quoted tested whether extra VOLUME (by the addition of isolation exercises) increased growth over 10 weeks. It found no difference. As I’ve stated in previous, recent articles, it isn’t VOLUME but INTENSITY that creates the growth stimulus. The author then comes to the conclusion that compound exercises are superior to isolation exercises. You can’t reach that conclusion from the data. It’s not an accurate statement because that was not the hypothesis being tested, it was a question of volume.
Also, what was the protocol. Did they train to failure? What type of isolation exercises were used? Was there resistance at the PCP? Did the sets fall within the anaerobic window? Did they allow the Isolation group more time to recover and grow because of the extra workload? Failing to do so would have stopped any extra gains from coming in the first place (see my article on peak overcompensation point for more on that).
Basically the study doesn’t prove anything about the efficacy of compound vs isolation movements in regards to muscular hypertrophy.
On another note, I know (and I’m sure other people do too) guys who have trained only for the ‘glory muscles’ i.e. arms and chest and have the results to show for it. One guy at 5’5” has massive arms, no lats, or shoulders, and chicken legs because he doesn’t train them. Very much an example of localized muscle growth. Not that I recommend such an approach though, squats and deadlifts are still great exercises guys 😉

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:55:06 +0000

Hi there Mark,

How about for beginners, would you tell them to do compound only workouts before moving onto isolation based routine?
Should I as a beginner expect to see some decent gains doing a workout like the one you provide in your ebook Total Anabolism?
Cheers